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When Dick Ayers asked Lee for writing credit J David Spurlock 19 September 2016 Michael Hill: Ayers toned it down for print. Here's Barry Pearl relating the story as Ayers told them: When Dick’s finished pages were shown to him, he saw the credits where he was only listed as artist. He went to Stan’s office and asked if he could also be listed as co-plotter. Stan yelled, “Since when did you develop an ego? Get out of here!” (Barry Pearl, “The Yancy Street Gang visits Dick & Lindy Ayers, ” Alter Ego #90, December 2009.) Patrick Ford: Of course the difference with Kirby is Kirby had been writing for several years before Lee began working in comics. Another difference which is almost certainly true is unlike Ayers, Kirby was not getting plot ideas from Lee. And after a time even Ayers began plotting stories when Lee told Ayers he could not come up with a plot and Ayers had better do it. Ferran Delgado 20 September 2016 Dick Ayers talks about the Marvel Method in 'Comics Scene' #11 (Sept, 1983). Patrick Ford: Ayers' comments are interesting but he and others should be careful not to assume their working method with Lee was identical to the situation involving Kirby and Lee, Wood and Lee, Ditko and Lee. People like Ayers and John Romita are not Jack Kirby or Steve Ditko and since they never participated in meetings between Lee and Kirby, Wood, or Ditko they have no knowledge of what went on during those meetings. Keeping in mind that when John Romita speaks of meetings between Kirby and Lee the fact is that Romita did not become an employee until Jan. of 1966, and the sum total of his experience with Lee and Kirby together consists of two or three car rides home from the Marvel office. What Romita never saw was Kirby and Lee inside Lee's private office. Chris Tolworthy: Yes, I find it frustrating that people say "Stan was like that with me, therefore he was like that with Kirby and Ditko." Ayers is a fine artist, even a great artist, but as a storyteller he is not Kirby. Ayers and co show us that Stan let the artists do as much writing as they were capable of. And Kirby had shown that he could do far more than Stan. So the implication is obvious. Patrick Ford: Chris, Yes it is frustrating when you see people who have no idea how Kirby's meetings with Lee went comment on them as if they have any idea at all what went on. We know from comments by Kirby and Ditko that from 1958 to 1963 (or there about) Lee's office was tiny and he didn't even have a secretary. The office was so small that people would wait outside the office if Lee was meetings with someone else when they arrived. And we know that as soon as the office became just a tiny bit larger Lee immediately had a private office which a person had to be invited into. So meetings between Lee and Kirby took place in that office and no one was in there with them. Marie Severin, Flo Steinberg and others have all described how Kirby would arrive. Make some polite conversation, and then go into Lee's office. And we know from Ayers that Lee did not always give Ayers a plot. So if Lee ordered Ayers and Stan Goldberg to come up with plots then does it make sense that Kirby would need Lee to plot for him? Patrick Ford: And it sure does not help when reporters don't question these sorts of "Stan did that for all of us" comments. I think the only time I have ever seen anyone ask a follow up question concerning those sorts of comments is when Kirby attorney Marc Toberoff questioned Roy Thomas and John Romita. Both Thomas and Romita began talking about the way Kirby worked with Lee and Toberoff followed up by asking them if they had any knowledge of what went on at Marvel from 1958 to 1964 and they both had to admit they didn't know anything because they were not there. Follow up questions of that kind beg to be asked and never are when the Lee/Kirby issues are being discussed.

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