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Lee did not want fans to know he was called Stanley in 1961 [Editor's note: in 1961, "Stan Lee" was still a pen name, Stanley Lieber was his real name.] Patrick Ford 8 April 2017

Jack Kirby inked by Mike Royer and possibly Bill Wray - WHAT IF? #11. There's an edit on this page in panel five. The words "penciled pages for" have been pasted over the lettering which went to the editor. I would guess the line originally read "pencil story pages." A photocopy of the pencils would indicate what Kirby wrote. There's an interesting story behind this issue of WHAT IF?. According to Roy Thomas he approached Kirby soon after Kirby signed with Marvel in 1975. Thomas proposed that Kirby would plot and draw the FANTASTIC FOUR with Thomas editing and providing dialogue. Since Thomas has insisted in multiple interviews (some of which were under oath) that Stan Lee always plotted the FF it is hard to understand why Thomas (or any other writer at Marvel) would want a penciler who worked from Stan Lee's plots to plot the FF or anything else. In any event Kirby told Thomas he would draw the FF, but only if Thomas gave Kirby a full script. For some mysterious reason Thomas didn't go for that idea (perhaps because Robert E. Howard never wrote any Fantastic Four stories). A bit later Thomas (still wanting to work with Kirby) proposed that Kirby would plot and draw an issue of WHAT IF? with Thomas editing and writing the dialogue. Thomas did propose the idea of the "original Marvel bullpen" being the FF. Thomas wanted to fill the role of the Human Torch. Kirby again said he would only work full script. Thomas was excited about the idea of being the Human Torch and having Kirby and Lee as the Thing and Mr. Fantastic so he told Kirby to go ahead and write the story himself. Kirby went ahead and created the story replacing Thomas with Sol Brodsky. According to Thomas he didn't need to change anything in the story aside from places where Kirby referred to Stan Lee as "Stanley." Kirby almost always calls Lee "Stanley" although in interviews "Stanley" is usually transcribed as "Stan Lee." According to Thomas it was Stan Lee who objected and asked for all the "Stanleys" to be changed to Stan. Patrick Ford I've never heard anyone explain how Bill Wray came to be involved in the inking of this issue. Rand Hoppe: voila

Patrick Ford: Kirby placing "Marvel" in quotes perhaps because Kirby thought of the place as "Goodman's" J David Spurlock: I find the text demeaning to Jack. "I did my best... this batch was FUN to DRAW" — very passive and continues the myth that Jack was simply a penciler though, by this time he was finally being credited as writing and editing much if not most of his work (thanks to his deal with Carmine at DC). "Let's see those pages. Don't keep them in the folder" — what idiot artist is going to sit there twiddling his thumbs until a smarter person orders him to present them? UGH! Patrick Ford: Kirby wrote the dialogue on the page so perhaps he was being self-depreciating. I see that Rand Hoppe has supplied a photocopy and Kirby did in fact write "penciled pages." I'm not sure why the paste over is on the inked and lettered art. Perhaps just to reposition the balloon lettering. Patrick Ford: The balloon "By the way Jack" looks to have been added by Thomas. It isn't on the penciled panel. Patrick Ford: Also pre-toupee, but for what ever reason Kirby drew Lee with his toupee.

Michael Royer: Mike Royer inked the first half of this book and Bill inked the second half. Don't remember the exact details but half way through Jack called and said I was needed on something else more important and that was that. Bill got to ink all the "fun" pages. *sigh* Patrick Ford: Thanks for clearing that up Michael. I need to dig out the book and have a look at it. Michael Royer: I can't remember if I had lettered the complete book or not, but that was the way I worked. Letter the whole book before inking. *sigh* Patrick Ford: Do you recall any comments from Kirby concerning the story? I know that according to Mark Evanier he didn't want to do the story, but Marvel was going to go ahead and do it whether Kirby was involved or not so he agreed to write and draw the story. Kirby was under contract with Marvel at the time so he was in no position to revive the Funky Flashman. Patrick Ford: We know from the Funky Flashman story as well as the earlier "This is a Plot?" story that Kirby could do a spot on caricature of Lee. So it's interesting that here he makes no attempt to capture a likeness of the early '60s Lee. Patrick Ford 10 April 2017

Here's a page from the second half of the story which was inked by Bill Wray. Wray's approach is interesting but he's no Royer. The lettering in the two balloons in panel one where the Watcher is speaking aren't lettered by Mike. Rand could possibly provide a scan to show what it was Marvel decided to change. Patrick Ford: Note the distinctive "U" letter form in the relettered balloons.

Patrick Ford: Compare to the "U" form on the rest of the page.

Patrick Ford: Bold face of what I assume is Mike's lettering.

Patrick Ford: Bold face

Patrick Ford: Mike mentioned that Bill Wray got to ink "the fun stuff." Maybe he meant the chance to ink the original FF.

Rand Hoppe: Watcher's only word balloon. All others the same as pencilled

Patrick Ford: Rand, Any other changes to the text on that page? Patrick Ford: Thanks Rand. Can you repost the full image of the Watcher? It shows the second balloon was added by someone at Marvel. Rand Hoppe:

Patrick Ford: Kirby's (the Watcher's) comments concerning the FF changing the entire Marvel format echo his comments in the 1969 Mark Herbert interview.

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