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"Bad memory" as an excuse for lying
[Editor's note: for lying, see "when Lee misled the press"]
Chris Tolworthy
April 7, 2017
Does anyone know of Stan Lee quotes where he admits to poor memory? Everyone refers to Lee's "notoriously bad memory" but the only direct quote I can find is this tweet: "I even had a bad memory when I was young. I'd call him 'Bob Banner' instead of 'Bruce Banner,' etc. I hadda give out a heap of no-prizes!" I recall seeing more damning admissions of poor memory, but can't find them. Can anyone help?
Michael Hill
"My memory is not the best," "I have the worst memory in the world," "obviously my memory is wrong."
http://twomorrows.com/comicbookartist/articles/02stanroy.html
Patrick Ford
Feb. 2017 from New Musical Express: "I have the world's worst memory."
Patrick Ford
2006 with Kevin Smith: "I have the worst memory in the world"
Michael Hill
Patrick, it would be interesting to see if any are from before the Arthur Lieberman relationship. At least one is after.
Patrick Ford
The association with attorney Arthur Lieberman began in 1971.
I wonder about things like that. For example the whole bit about Larry Lieber writing full scripts. Was that ever mentioned prior to the '90s? It seems to me the Larry Lieber full scripts claim came about quite recently. Groth and Kirby were not aware of it in the late '80s. Marvel was publishing "monster story" collections which credited Lee with "scripts" and didn't mention Lieber at all.
At big part of Lee's house of cards was probably constructed by Marvel attorneys. That does not excuse the fact Lee was stealing payment and credit in the early '60s. And taking writing pay prior to that.
Michael Hill
The legal advice was the opposite in 2010: to have a relapse of perfect clarity for a few hours with coaching as required.
Patrick Ford
I'm pretty certain the whole "worst memory" bit began in the early '60s LOC pages. I'm not sure I want to research it but if I run across anything I'll post it. It's part of Lee's act. The self aggrandizement which Lee balances with an aw-shucks self depreciation. Lee's fans gobble his act up like candy. They fully accept Lee as the genius creator because Lee is modest and self-depreciating. Lee also (as I recall) used the poor memory bit as an excuse for his numerous errors resulting in the invention of the No Prize. It's easier to say, "I forgot" than it is to say, "I didn't know because I wasn't the writer."
Patrick Ford
Ditko's recent comments concerning Stan Lee's poor memory.
"Poor memory advocates - too often - want to be given a blank check for what comes out of their mouths."
"Can a man/mind with a claimed poor memory have any authentic, personal integrity?"
S. Ditko, 2014 (Essay #34: Memory)
"There are those who make reference to, justifications for, their poor memory but poor memory doesn't stop them from still claiming facts, truth, credit."
S. Ditko, 2014 (Essay #34: Memory)
Patrick Ford
I imagine Ditko, Kirby and Wood really got under Lee's skin because no doubt Lee's shallow act didn't work on them at all. Comments by those men indicate that Lee didn't even try to use his shtick on them.
7 April 2017
Patrick Ford: I've seen fans write, "Even Stan admits his memory is bad."
As with most things we "know" about Lee the poor memory bit comes straight from Lee's mouth.
Ditko is stating the obvious here. Among all the other reasons, why should anyone pay attention to a guy who is constantly saying he has "the world's worst memory." "The World's Worst" mind you.
Ruben Miranda: If he knows he had such a poor memory, his answer to every question should be "I don't remember.", instead of just making shit up.
Patrick Ford: Say there is a trial and a witness keeps interrupting his testimony to say he has, " the world's worst memory." How does that work.
Michael Hill: Joseph, how can you comment on Toberoff's strategy regarding Lee when all you can see forever is a small fraction of it?
Patrick Ford: I would assume he did do it. There are over 200 pages that remain unseen. Open this link and go to page 6 of the exhibit which is actually page 254 of the original document. Then read the exchange and notice Toberoff says, "...how did you guess that was my question? Thank you. You're a quick study."
https://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/new-york/nysdce/1:2010cv00141/356975/102/10.html
Patrick Ford: Or see page 14 of the exhibit which is page 285 of Lee's testimony. Toberoff has Lee read from a transcript where Lee said at a comic book convention, "I better watch what I say, because I never know. Jack may be here. I'm not noted for always telling the truth, but at least people don't usually catch me at it."
Patrick Ford: The document runs at least 396 pages. Pages 1-149 are Lee's May 2010 deposition for Disney and Marvel. Most of that has been published. Toberoff's cross-examination is pages 150-396. Only around thirty pages of the 246 have been released. And I don't think any comics site included the 28 pages Toberoff was able to make public here:
https://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/new-york/nysdce/1:2010cv00141/356975/102/10.html
Gethin Lewis: His "memory" returned quite well in his testimony...oh wait...
Steve Webb: I felt comfortable using poor memory as an excuse for Stan in the 1980s. Not for a long time since.
Patrick Ford: Note that in describing Lee all three men (Ditko, Kirby and Wood) describe Lee as going silent when confronted. In the case of Ditko, Lee stopped speaking to Ditko altogether.
Mark Ricard: He is very right. I have said the same thing. You can pass off any lie with "poor memory". Second, if Stan Lee knows he has such a poor memory why does he not shut up and quit telling his stories?
Patrick Ford: It's a transparent ruse. Anyone should be able to see right through him. And it's nothing Lee invented. It's one of the oldest cons around. It's shameful adults fall for it. They should be embarrassed. Ditko explains this as "emotional gratification." In other words it makes the fan feel good to preserve Lee's story. It is more important to the fan to preserve the fantasy of Smilin' Stan and the Merry Marvel bullpen than it is to look at the objective facts.
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