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"Stretcho" as a dialog term for Reed Richards
Patrick Ford
27 February 2017
The antecedents in Kirby's older work to Kirby's Silver Age Marvel work comprise a mountain. Even down to little things like the name "Stretcho."
These little things would not seem like much if there were not so many of them.
Ferran Delgado: i totally agree, but i think that it's needed to point out that Plastic Man showed a couple of years before this issue of 'Adventure', in 1941. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_Man
Aaron Noble: Sure, but Kirby's early use of the name 'Stretcho" for a malleable character impinges on the official narrative in which Stan provided all the colorful human elements of the FF. It reminds me of the antecedents for Peter Parker's high school social dynamic that appear in Kirby but not, as far as anyone has found, in Lee or Ditko.
Chris Tolworthy: Aaron Noble Agreed. As a big FF fan (in terms of web site size, probably the biggest) this is huge. At this point, it seems clear that Lee's ONLY contribution was in dumbing down others ideas. yes, he could write on his own, but his original stories were no better than any other hired writer could have done: Lee was literally what he claimed Kirby to be, the hired guy who was replaceable. Except, when they replaced Lee the writing generally got better, whereas when they replaced Kirby the ideas dried up.
Where I maybe disagree with some here is that I think dumbing down sometimes has value. An awful lot of people like comics to be safe and undemanding, and they will pay for that. Since they will pay, that is the argument that Lee maybe earned his money.
However, in the final analysis, every other comic editor also dumbed down and it didn't give THEM a million dollar salary and legions of fans queueing to pay for autographs. Lee's income relies on taking credit for others' work.
To me, Lee's appeal, why people still want to believe him, is the same reason people like X-Factor and Pop Idol: "that could be me!" We love the idea that a talentless guy can one day decide "I am sick of writing bad comics, I think I'll write good ones". Or the girl singing into the hairbrush, out of tune, thinks "I know I could be famous if I only want it enough!" They hate the idea that geniuses are people who struggle for long hours over decades. That geniuses are often never appreciated, or are ripped off by others who take the glory. People want to be the ripper, not the ripped. People want to spend their time partying and being admired, not struggling, penniless for their craft.
Stan is an an enticing illusion. And that's why he's popular. In my view.
Michael Hill: "...taking credit for other people's work" in addition to taking the writing page rate from a guy who wrote a spectacular number of pages.
Patrick Ford: Aaron Noble , My point exactly. It's another direct antecedent.
Patrick Ford: Chris Tolworthy , It's true that dumbing down, bleaching, pasteurizing have a commercial value. That is why white bread sells better than whole wheat. It's also the reason why Orson Welles and Stanley Kubrick never won an Oscar for best director.
Patrick Ford: It's never my intent to claim that Kirby came up with new never before seen ideas. It is difficult to say anyone ever came up with a new completely original idea. When observers think that has happened it turns out to be because they are not familiar with the creators "reading list."
My interest is pointing out information which suggests that Kirby brought the basic undeveloped plot and character ideas to Lee as opposed to Lee assigning them to Kirby.
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