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Stan Lee did not write the monster books that are now credited to him
Patrick Ford
14 June 2016
How come no one has ever pointed this out? What were the pre-hero
years at Marvel? That would be 1958-1961. So go look at Stan Lee's
credits at the Atlas Tales .com website and what do you know.
https://www.atlastales.com/creator/7
From 1958 to the end of 1961 Stan Lee does not have one credit on any
of the Marvel "monster books." Lee does sign hundreds of stories
during that time. All Lee's writing is done for Westerns and the
sexist "Dumb Broad" type books which seem to have been Lee's
specialty.
So there are no Lee credits for TALES TO ASTONISH, JOURNEY INTO
MYSTERY, TALES OF SUSPENSE, AMAZING ADVENTURES, etc.
But there are hundreds of credits for LIFE WITH MILLIE, KATHY, PATSY
WALKER, MILLIE THE MODEL, MY GIRL PEARL, etc.
And in fact there are no Lee credits on any of the Mystery/Monster
books until TALES TO ASTONISH #24 (October 1961).
Kind of casts doubt on Lee's claims that he created the Marvel Method
because he no longer had time to write full scripts for Kirby and
Ditko.
Or did Lee just forget to sign every Mystery/Monster story from 1958
to October 1961 when he never forgot to sign hundreds of Westerns and
"Dumb Broad" stories?
Patrick Ford: In order to fully appreciate this go to this link and
scroll down to Lee's credits from 1958-Oct. 1961. There are hundreds
upon hundreds of stories which Lee signed. There is not one story
credited to Lee or signed by Lee in any of the Monster/Mystery books.
https://www.atlastales.com/creator/7
Patrick Ford: So when Lee and his house boy talk about Lee using the
Marvel Method on Fin-Fang_Foom well why is it there aren't ANY
monster/mystery stories until one month prior to FANTASTIC FOUR #1.
And how come I'm pointing this out? You mean to say I'm the first
person that has ever bothered to look?
Patrick Ford: I have heard Lee and Thomas explain that Lee "forgot" to
sign his name once and awhile.
Well the score is he never failed to sign once on any of the "Dumb
Broad" books and there are hundreds and hundreds of them. And we are
supposed to believe he never once remembered to sign a Mystery/Monster
story until Oct. 1961? Get out!
Aaron Noble: Stan signed everything he wrote. Gag cartoon pages. Half
page kid humor strips. Paper Doll pages. Hair-do's sent in by our
readers.
Patrick Ford: The first Ditko story signed by Lee came in Sept. of
1961 on GUNSMOKE WESTERN #66. Ditko had been regularly selling stories
to Marvel for almost six years by that time.
Patrick Ford: Aaron Noble, That's correct. It's thousands of examples
with never a miss for Lee on things like PATSY, MILLIE, KATHY.
Lee and Roy Thomas must have noticed that prior to Oct. 1961 none of
the Mystery/Monster type stories are signed by Lee, because in a
couple of interviews it's been suggested by Thomas and agreed to by
Lee that Lee forgot to sign some of his stories and that explains why
they aren't seen on the M/M stuff.
But 100% signed to 0% signed is hard to explain.
Aaron Noble: Apparently Larry Lieber is the true unheralded genius of
Proto-Marvel...
Patrick Ford: I'm pretty sure that Lieber has said he never wrote a
script for Ditko. Lieber supposedly writing full scripts brings up
another interesting point though. If the Marvel Method was such a
great idea then why was Lee working Marvel Method while his brother
(who had zero writing experience) was writing full panel by panel
scripts for Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko?
Aaron Noble: When does Lee say he began working MM?
Patrick Ford: He claims to have written the Fin-Fang-Foom story.
Patrick Ford: In the ORIGINS book he writes, "There we were grinding
out Merry Monster stories..."
Patrick Ford: From COMIC BOOK ARTIST #2.
Roy: I assume that Joan said this after you were given the assignment
to do the super-hero group and not while you were doing the monster
books.
Stan: It was after I told her that Martin wanted to do a super-hero
group but I thought that I would say to him, "Forget it. I want to
quit."
Roy: By Fantastic Four #1, you had developed what later came to be
called "the Marvel style." But you were doing this all along for some
monster stories, some time before this. How far back does that go?
Stan: You mean just doing synopses for the artists? Was I doing them
before Marvel?
Roy: I know that you did it for Fantastic Four. [Stan's synopsis for
F.F. #1 is printed in Alter Ego, Vol. 2, #2, backing this issue of
CBA.] So I figured with Jack as the artist—and maybe Ditko, too—in
these minor stories that you mostly wrote, along with Larry Lieber,
you must have been doing it since the monster days.
Stan: You know something, Roy? Now that you say it, that's probably
true; but I had never thought of that. I thought that I started it
with the Fantastic Four, but you're probably right.
Roy: You probably didn't write full scripts for Jack for "Fin Fang Foom."
Stan: I did full scripts in the beginning, but then I found out how
good he was just creating his own little sequence of pictures—and I
did it in the beginning with Ditko, too—but when I found out how good
they were, I realized that, "Gee, I don't have to do it—I get a better
story by just letting them run free."
Patrick Ford: Why is Roy "Mr. Historian" Thomas talking about Lee
working on the "monster books" when Lee never signed his name on a
"monster book" until one month prior to FF #1 ?
Aaron Noble: Roy seems to be creating testimony very deliberately here, but why?
Patrick Ford: Lee's stories are full of holes and I think Thomas has
tried to go back and fix the continuity.
Patrick Ford: I take it these corrections came about because it hurts
Lee's credibility if Lee never showed an inclination or interest in
science fiction, fantasy, or super heroes during the whole of the '50s
while Kirby was doing all of those things.
I am personally convinced that Marvel, Lee and Thomas are all very
much aware of this and have worked hard to create a false narrative
which supports Lee's claims.
Aaron Noble: Right, but what's in it for Roy?
Aaron Noble: BTW, it seems hard to believe, but I've never heard this
pointed out before, the lack of fantasy stories before FF 1. Mike
Vassallo must have been aware, but I never saw him mention it.
Patrick Ford: Vassallo makes a point of restricting himself to the
period prior to FF #1. Vassallo did point out that Lee never wrote
fantasy from 1955 to 1957. I'll post now on his findings. The period
could be updated to 1955 to Oct. 1961.
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