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Possible changes to Kirby's Thor story
Chris Tolworthy
2 October 2016
Does anybody have access to the pencils for Journey into Mystery 113? It looks to me like two of the images were altered, but I could be wrong.
The panels in question are on pages 3 and 4. The context is important. Thor just had his first taste of Asgard, and obviously loves it. Then he returns to Earth and is sad. Stan's dialog makes it look like his decision, but the art seems to say it's Odin's choice.
There are only two parts of the art that support Stan's dialog,
and they both look oddly drawn to me:
In the first picture, Odin raises his arms to rage against Thor. But I think this is out of character: it makes Odin seem frustrated, unable to get his way. But Kirby's Odin up to this point always gets his way! The rt on the arms look wrong to me, and the body shape does not fit the arms (to me). In fact, the body looks better without the arms. And the fact that the body is in silhouette makes me doubly suspicious.
In the second picture, Blake smiles when he meets Foster. But it's a weird looking smile. Also, his eyes don't smile, and every other image shows him looking very serious.
To my eyes, these look changed in order to make this Thor's decision. But all the other art suggests it's Odin's doing and Thor just has to accept it. But for Stan, the male hero always has to be the winner, so I can see why he would override Kirby's story. The original pencils may or may not help to clarify this.
Thoughts?
Chris Tolworthy: To be fair, later in the issue Odin does raise his arm in emotion, but I see that as very different. One is a threat, the other is an act of judgment.
When you raise your fists to an opponent you are threatening him, showing your potential for violence. Odin does not need to do that - his power is never in doubt. Does the president of the United States need to rise his fists when an employee refuses to obey?
But when Odin refused the food it was judgement: his servants thought he wanted food. Can't they see that he has more important things on his mind than to waste time feasting?
How then do I explain Odin's raised fist on the next page? Ignore Stan's dialog, look at Jack's art. The other hand is open, powerless. Odin is in a lower position than Loki, so this is not a statement of power. Odin's face does not show anger, but perhaps sadness? I asked my wife (a non comic reader) how she interpreted that frame, and she said it looked like triumph. Which is another interesting possibility. But is not anger.
Of course, I could be reading too much into it.... :)
Patrick Ford: Odin's right arm looks way off and not in any sort of exaggerated way which would be associated with Kirby. The very thin forearm which suddenly balloons up at the elbow is off.
The lantern jawed Blake also looks off.
A good scan of the original art might serve to determine if the panels were "corrected." It certainly would not be surprising.
Lee's editing became very heavy handed around 1962. If you look at the pre-hero stuff from 1958 through most of 1961 it's unusual to see signs of any corrections to the art or the text.
Chris Tolworthy: I find this all fascinating. I recently had time to start reading Thor again (just moved house) and sometimes the edits really stands out. The few issues up to just before the Absorbing Man seem awkward: they take a several re-reads (ignoring the dialog of course) to work out what is going on. But the Absorbing Man and the next couple of issues flow really beautifully. They don't need dialog at all, everything is super clear from the art, with no jarring stops or odd parts. I wonder if Stan was too busy to interfere with those issues?
Then a couple of issue later it starts to feel jarring again. The simplest example is in the Destroyer cover that's made from copying frames from the story. Presumably Stan completely rejected Jack's cover and there wasn't time to draw another one.
Jim Van Heuklon: The third panel with Don Blake hunched over looks to be rather upset. The fingers of his left hand appear to be over his face as though he is rather upset and this panel looks very Kirby to me. It looks as though the finger tips of his left hand are just visible on the right side of his face perhaps?
Patrick Ford: Page 3 is at Heritage Auction Gallery. Kirby's notes for the last panel show Thor thinking that he has to make a choice.
Patrick Ford The Odin figure looks even more off when seen at full size.
Chris Tolworthy: Thanks for the find! Yes, the decision is how I see it. The previous issue (recalling the Hulk fight) had Thor being very thoughtful, and apparently deciding that he should be above such things. Then JiM 113 starts with him being let into Asgard, presumably on a trial basis. But he is unwilling to give up his mistress. I think Odin's feelings would be sadness rather than anger.
Patrick Ford: What can be read of the border notes reads: "Gotta choose between..."
Chris Tolworthy: Patrick Ford which would argue for the arms being down, in my view. Odin is sad and serious, not wild. There is a similar pose in the Odin flashback that Stan says is about Odin's wife. But that comes out of nowhere, sand the amount of text forced onto those frames (and having to make Loki the good guy and Balder the trickster) makes me think that Jack did not intend that. To me it looks like Sif, Thor's wife (she did not have black hair in her first appearance), which would explain the presence of her brother, Balder, But Stan would not want even a hint of adultery for comics code reasons.
Patrick Ford:
1. It's always hard to draw conclusions about the Silver Age Marvel stories, even when looking at stats, because we know Lee would order changes which Kirby had to go along with.
2. It's my opinion that Kirby came up with the idea for a Thor comic book and brought it to Lee. And that the stories did not begin based on a brief plot suggested by Lee. That does not preclude Kirby having to go along with editorial dictates from Lee. If Lee decided early to to play up the Thor-Nurse-Blake triangle then Kirby had to go along with it. I doubt he could flat out ignore Lee's commands. Not unless he wanted to see the assignment taken away from him. Which may explain why Kirby was taken off Thor.
3. This is not to say that Kirby gave up attempting to guide the book back in the direction he preferred. It's just that Kirby would have to do that carefully and over time.
Chris Tolworthy: Totally agree.
Jim Van Heuklon: Don Blake looks just like Steve Rogers in the last panel.
Jim Van Heuklon: Odin is far too close in proximity to Thor to ink the figure in such a way unless you were making a really shitty edit.
Patrick Ford: It does look to me as if the Odin figure has been blacked out by someone other than Kirby or Stone. That would also explain the weird looking right forearm.
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