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Thor 101: the difference between Kirby's writing and Lee's writing Patrick Ford 29 September 2016 JOURNEY INTO MYSTERY #101. Chris Tolworthy has done a fine job taking a close look at the early Thor stories and the big changes in feel and direction which come about when Kirby is working on the title and when he is not. Read Chris' analysis here: http://classiccomics.org/thread/3689/thor-lee-review-thread Patrick Ford: The Chris Tolworthy comments : Journey into Mystery 101 = Lee and Kirby 101. JiM 101 comes after another gap: the non-Kirby issues 98-100. This is late 1963, the explosion of the Marvel Universe, the busiest period of Kirby's life, when he's creating an insane number of characters and pages. Not even The King can be in two places at once, so he's pulled away to get new titles up to speed. In his absence Stan invents the Cobra and Mr Hyde. These two characters would be fine in, say, Daredevil, but are totally out of place in Thor. We can see Kirby's frustration in this issue. Thor is incredibly frustrated and angry, and spends the first pages of the story looking back over lame characters and enduring lame crossovers and romances, usually in flashback. For the record, I don't think "The Avengers" was Kirby's idea. Sure, he was put on it to make it sell, but I don't see the care, or effort, or reason for existing that I see in Thor or the FF. The whole idea of the Avengers seems to be to purely sell more books. That is Stan's goal: sell, sell, sell! I think that Lee deserves credit for both the Marvel Universe as we know it, and the Avengers, now at its heart. Back to JiM 101. Just look at the splash page. Here is a guy who kicks a chunk out of a lamp post simply by brushing against it. And the Cobra was supposed to be a threat? If I was Kirby I'd be seething too. Back and forth: separating the Lee and Kirby elements It is clear from Kirby's solo work (and from Tales of Asgard, see previous entry) that Kirby and Lee have different visions. But Kirby draws these stories after a meeting with Lee, and Lee has the final say. If Lee says "Thor meets the Avengers" then Thor has to meet the Avengers. No matter how it might conflict with what Kirby wants to do. Then Stan dialogs the finished result, pulling it back in line with his experience of what sells books. Lee knows that the audience is still primarily children. So in this thread I am trying to separate three elements: Lee's plot idea (e.g. meet Avengers, ask Odin for permission to marry) Kirby's art (Avengers barely get a few frames, Thor battles Heimdall and loses) Lees' dialog (Thor is lovesick, Odin depowers him) The more I see of Kirby's work the easier I think it is to see where Kirby is pulling. Before Lee pulls him back. Readers of course can disagree. :) Thor tries to enter Asgard I am not convinced by this "halving of Thor's power" dialog. This is used as an excuse for Thor to be unable to get past Heimdall and enter Asgard. This is classic Stan Lee: he wants easy to understand stories. So his hero is always the strongest guy in the room. We see this again and again in the FF, where Mr Fantastic is portrayed as a natural leader, and Sue is shown as much weaker, whereas the art shows them as equals. But Kirby has fought in actual battles, and knows that a battle between equals, where the hero sometimes loses, is more exciting than a foregone conclusion. Sure, Heimdall is not Thor's equal overall. But Heimdall is empowered by Odin to defend the bridge: that is his specialism and that is what he can do. Similarly, I am not convinced by the weak, pouting Thor who is upset that daddy won't let him go on a date. That is so NOT Thor. However, it is clear from the art that Thor has some disagreements with Odin. Thor wants to go to Asgard to settle these differences, but Odin wants him on Earth. This conflict arises naturally from the big plot: Odin placed him there and the plan is necessary as a way to survive or at least mitigate Ragnarok. Thor/Blake is caught between the two worlds, so it is only natural he would want to visit Asgard now. But Odin says no. Time travel What is really going on with the time travel part of the story? Obviously if we are building to a future event (Raganrok) then travelling to a time past that event is a good idea. And since the other gods are hiding in Asgard, Thor maybe figure he will have to create his own army on Earth. So a post-Ragnarok super-advanced robot is the obvious choice. So when the future robots attack, it makes sense to go back to the future with them, both to fix the probe at its source and out of curiosity. I can't speculate more without seeing how the art in this two part story develops. So... to be continued! Michael Hill: "Thor wants to go to Asgard to settle these differences, but Odin wants him on Earth. This conflict arises naturally from the big plot: Odin placed him there and the plan is necessary as a way to survive or at least mitigate Ragnarok." Ted Krasniewski, TJKC 14: -I loved those mid-town Manhattan landings: Kirby babes in pillbox hats, guys in fedoras, an Asgardian or two in big colors and chrome, newly arrived to the asphalt, and always a New York cop to interpret the right of way, in dark heavy blue like some doorman to the gods. - After Ragnarok, we pick up where the big plot left off with Orion.

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