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John Romita: is he reliable?
(fans sometimes quote John Romita about Marvel in the early days)
Patrick Ford
20 September 2016
What John Romita says he actually knows about Kirby's work during the years 1958-July 1965 Jan. 1966.
Patrick Ford:
Patrick Ford: So there you have it. Romita never asked Kirby a thing about his business dealings with Marvel (Lee). So all Romita has to go on is what he was told by Lee and other Marvel management.
Patrick Ford: Incidentally the artwork which Kirby was assigned to "correct" is almost certainly the cover of ASM# 35 which was published Feb. 10, 1966.
Patrick Ford
27 September 2016
JOHN ROMITA (AND ALL THAT JAZZ pg. 80): "He once drew very lean figures. I think Stan and Jack must have arrived at the idea of making the characters very much larger than life."
Who is Stan Lee's number one fan? It's a crowded field for sure. Many people would pick Roy Thomas. Not a bad choice. However, during a relatively brief time in the early '80s when Thomas was estranged from Marvel he said a lot of highly uncomplimentary things about Lee. In fact Thomas said worse things about Lee than anything Kirby ever said. At least I am not aware of Kirby ever accusing Lee of breaking the law.
All things considered I have to say that, by a very wide margin, John Romita is Stan Lee's most loyal servant.
Tom Karro-Gassner: I've never seen the Thomas estranged from Lee 80s stuff. Do you have that?
Patrick Ford: Yeah. It's harsh. TCJ #61.
Ferran Delgado: Well, sometimes he said publicly which was his REAL contribution to Spider-Man. In 1969 he said that he did the plots from scratch.
Ferran Delgado: Even he complained about Lee in CBA #6, making public that Lee cashed his plotting work.
Ferran Delgado: In my last mag I published some excerpts by Romita in different ages where he described his work in ASM, and then I included the published credits of the stories he mentioned, so people would see if there was a relation between both subjects. Of course, there wasn't.
Ferran Delgado: It's a clear case of Stockholm syndrome, because Lee even mocked publicly about abusing him in a Bullpen Bulletins (from ASM 74).
Patrick Ford: More likely than Stockholm syndrome is Romita is an employee of Marvel. As is common with corporations it is certain his contract forbids him to say anything which would damage the company.
And even before the formalities of contracts there was the understanding that a person does not butt heads with management.
As early as 1966 Romita was found ridiculing Steve Ditko in the WEB SPINNER fanzine. Romita even went so far as to spread a pretty viscous rumor claiming that Ditko got an editor at Charlton fired.
Patrick Ford: Romita's pokes at Lee are interesting, but they actually assist the Lee narrative. Lee himself likes to affect a self-depreciating manner in order to balance his other side. Most fans seem to find this whole bit adorable. Lee as the cute kitten who jumps on the table and begins licking the butter. Since Romita is good humored about it anyone who does not share Romita's view is "bitter."
Steve Ditko sees right through Lee's act and has written at length about it. In detail Ditko takes apart Lee's construction of silly stories and public personality. Ditko also points out his criticisms of Lee seem to have no impact on what Ditko calls "True Believers" who are "emotionally gratified" by their "dogma."
Patrick Ford
28 September 2016
Here's John Romita with some comments about inking. It's a interesting thing about Romita that he frequently slants stories in a way which makes Kirby look bad. I'm going to quote Romita and then follow with some comments of my own.
JOHN ROMITA: "Jack felt obliged to be complimentary towards the inkers whether he liked their work or not. But behind their backs he would generally tell people he didn't like certain inkers."
--To me the phrase "behind their backs" is immensely dickish. I would be less likely to say that if it didn't fit a pattern of behavior from Romita. I suppose that most people never say a word about anyone they would not say to a person's face?
JOHN ROMITA: "Stan was a good judge of comic art. A very good judge. Vinnie would embellish stuff with a lot of thin lines. He would add musculature to Jack Kirby. He would do that to appeal to Stan, because Stan loved it. So the more lines you did...it was almost looking like Frank Godwin. Godwin used to do almost photographic stuff. Stan was always impressed with that. Vinnie would add musculature and all sorts of shading and Stan loved it. He used to say, "I love that stuff Vinnie. Do more of it. He did it on THOR and a lot of Kirby freaks were very upset by that."
---Romita is comparing Vince Colletta to Frank Godwin? And he sounds serious? Can he be serious?
Oh, and the people who didn't like Colletta's lines applied to Kirby are, "Kirby freaks" ? Is that so? A person who likes Kirby's artwork is a freak?
Wow.
Patrick Ford: Somehow I'm just not seeing Colletta as another Frank Godwin.
Norris Burroughs All I can say is, look at the quality of the work that the speaker attained. I don't think much of his work or of what he has to say.
Patrick Ford: What is interesting to me is how along with Roy Thomas, Romita plays such a key role in advancing Lee's narrative as history.
Norris Burroughs: Company man.
Norris Burroughs: Lee and Romita were responsible for that hideous aberration, the 1950's Atlas Captain America, containing some of the ugliest art ever to be published.
Patrick Ford: Lee wasn't responsible for it. He certainly did not write it and it is unlikely he even edited the book.
However in interviews Romita recalls Lee writing full scripts and micromanaging every aspect of the short run. He then goes on to absurdly claim the title failed because (and I quote): "The American flag was a dirty word in those days. For awhile Captain America was a dirty name. That's why they dropped it."
This was 1954.
Norris Burroughs: Yes, in that climate of rabid anti-Americanism, it's quite remarkable that Joe McCarthy could even get a word in edgewise.
Patrick Ford: It's beyond ridiculous.
Patrick Ford: BTW. When Roy Thomas questioned Lee about the 1954 Captain America Lee could not recall one single thing about it. It's one of the strangest interviews ever done. When it becomes apparent Lee does not even recall the title being revived Thomas begins suggesting a narrative to which Lee agrees to. Thomas is literally making up a false history as he goes along and Lee keeps agreeing with him. Saying things like, "Well if you say so." Thomas was a child living in Kansas at the time.
Patrick Ford: And yet Romita recalls Lee telling him that the title was cancelled because of anti-American hate mail. Funny how the HUMAN TORCH and the SUB-MARINER were also cancelled.
Patrick Ford: If there is any doubt as to where Romita's political views are consider that he says during the '60s he would get into raging arguments with Herb Trimpe due to Trimpe's "radical political views." Things like being opposed to the Vietnam War.
Chris Tolworthy: Wasn't Romita promoted to art director when Kirby left? Was he "de facto" director before that? Lee would have good reason to set him up as equal to Kirby. Romita then becomes a key witness in the message that Kirby is just an employee. And having Kirby beneath him bumps his status, so there's good psychology there.
Perhaps I am being mean here, but this reminds me of two women I used to know who would gossip about a certain person they saw as a threat. One woman was the leader and the other was the enabler, and they spent a lot of time chatting together, reinforcing their beliefs.
Patrick Ford: I believe Romita acted on orders from Lee the whole time Lee was there. So up until the mid-'70s. Romita may have been acting on his own prior to that. It seems likely he reached a point where he knew what Lee wanted and the fact is by the late '60s Lee was generally only in the office two days a week and sometimes not even that.
Lee kept his art director position as long as possible. Probably because he was drawing a salary as art director. Here's what Roy Thomas said.
Patrick Ford: Of course Lee has frequently claimed he offered Kirby the Art Director position. The fact that Lee would not give up the position even after he was no longer involved suggests to me Lee wanted the title because there was a salary attached to it. And that tells me he never would have made Kirby the Art Director. According to Mark Evanier Kirby said Lee made an offer for Kirby to work in the office as an employee. Kirby looked at the pay and the hours involved and knew he was better off as a freelancer.
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